Ep 136: Does It Turn the Muscle On, or Turn it Off? Muscle Activation and Testing Every Device

Most clinics choose their equipment based on what the research says, what the rep promises, or what everyone else is using. Chad Sirratt does something simpler and considerably more revealing: he tests the patient before and after, and asks one question. Did that device turn the muscle on, or turn it off?

In this episode, Garrett sits down with Chad, owner of Texas Muscle Activation in Frisco, Texas, for a conversation about muscle activation, the whole-body detective work of finding out why something hurts, and what Chad learned when he started putting his patients’ own recovery devices to the test. Along the way Chad walks through the layered treatment model he has built — one of the most compelling and intentional sequences Garrett has seen in any clinic — and explains why so many of the things we do to feel better may be quietly making us weaker.

In this episode, we get into:

– What Muscle Activation Techniques actually is
– Why your hamstrings are tight, why stretching them is usually the wrong answer, and what the tightness is actually doing
– The whole-body assessment: why a flat foot can end up as neck pain, and why Chad reads the hip, foot, spine, shoulder, and neck as one system
– What a muscle test is really asking: not how strong is this muscle, but can it contract at all
– Why stretching, foam rolling, trigger point work, cupping, and dry needling can all leave a muscle testing weaker, and what that means for your recovery routine
– The device test: what happened when Chad put an athlete’s popular stim unit on his arm and found inhibition running all the way down to his foot — and what happened when he ran the same test with the Neubie
– The mistake Chad’s clinic was making before decompression sessions, and how understanding current changed their entire protocol
– How MAT, the Neubie, and IsoPhit stack together to build stability the nervous system will actually trust
– Chad’s one-line rule for what earns a place in his clinic

Whether you are a clinician deciding what belongs in your practice, an athlete wondering why your recovery tools are not working, or someone who has been stretching the same tight muscle for years without lasting change, this conversation offers a different way to evaluate what is helping you and what is holding you back.

 

TRANSCRIPT

Garrett Salpeter (00:01.036)
New Fit Nation, welcome back to another episode of the Undercurrent Podcast. Our guest today is Chad Surratt, the owner of Texas Muscle Activation in Frisco, Texas. And I had interacted with him virtually, but was just earlier, about a month ago, actually, was just able to actually visit his facility in person and was so impressed with their model and the very unique way that.

Garrett Salpeter (00:29.954)
They’re doing things that I just had to had to get him on the podcast. I’m so glad he he agreed to come on and talk about his work there at Texas Muscle Activation, where they do a lot of, as we’ll talk about, a lot of MAT or muscle activation technique. And they incorporate the newbie and a few other things. And it’s really, really something special. So Chad, I appreciate you coming on the show and and sharing your experience, your perspective, and what you guys are actually doing there with New Fit Nation.

Chad (00:58.041)
Yes, I’m happy to be here. I’m very happy to do this. I think more people need to.

kind of hear things like this, what things that you’ve done and some of the different modalities we have in the clinic and how they affect muscle recovery and performance and just everything all of the above.

Garrett Salpeter (01:16.448)
Awesome. So to kick off the conversation, can you please give us a sense of your background and how you came to be the the Texas muscle activation guy?

Chad (01:29.841)
Yeah, so kind of a long story. I’ll try to make it short. So I started my career in physical therapy. started as a technician. I didn’t really know what I wanted to do with my life. But played baseball in college for a couple of years, just D1, JuCo, nothing crazy. Started working at outpatient clinic. We saw probably, I don’t know, 70, 80 people a day. So was pretty busy clinic. Usually three or four physical therapy assistants and one LBT.

licensed physical therapist, which would now be a DPT that owned the clinic itself. And so just working there over time, I ended up going to school for a PTA. I didn’t know what I wanted to do. So I was a physical therapy assistant for a while. I didn’t do it very long, two, three, four years somewhere in there. And the therapist that was above me, he was kind of like big brother. He started personal training. He’s like, Hey, I want out of this field. I want to get into this, come with me. And so drove up to Cooper Institute in Dallas, Texas.

and got my personal training certification. Had no idea what it meant. So, but we killed it. We killed it in the little town we were from because we were therapists and we were training people and we’re getting them better. So I did that for a while and I ended up moving to Dallas and working for Lifetime Fitness and a couple other boxes and eventually opened my own clinic and had my own trainers that trained for me. And I ran into this one client that introduced me to a gentleman that owned

Texas Muscle Activation before me and he did MAT and I had no idea what it was. And this client of mine said, hey, I’m gonna go see my muscle guy. And I thought to myself, know, but you’re cheating on me now, come on, I’m your trainer. And so she was like, no, no, no, no, no, he touches me and I move better. And I went, maybe you shouldn’t tell people that. So she was like, no, it’s not like that. And I was like, okay. So,

met him and I started sending patients to him and what I found really quickly was not only did he fix kind some of the issues that my clients were having as a trainer, but when they came back to me, they actually started turning to me more because they start feeling better. And so what I didn’t really understand at the time was that input that he was creating with muscle activation was actually making their whole nervous system and their whole muscle system function better than, it did prior to being hurt.

Chad (03:53.633)
And so it wasn’t just fixing the issue was fixing the whole entire body. And so they started getting better completely. So I was, I started thinking, wow, this is crazy. Like, how’s he doing this? And so, long story short too late. my daughter actually rolled her ankle and she was in a high level, soccer soccer team here in Frisco, Texas. And what I had known as a PT to take four to six weeks to heal. He got her better in four days. Now she was taped up, but she played an entire soccer tournament that following weekend.

and did fine and there was nothing wrong. So I was wondering what are you doing? How are you fixing these people? And so I eventually ended up going to Denver, Colorado and getting my MAT certification. And so just through the years ended up working with him a little bit and eventually he wanted out and I wanted in. So I bought the company from him and kind of went from there.

Garrett Salpeter (04:43.542)
Awesome. So when I was there, as I mentioned, it’s a really wonderful facility. I I I like the progression that you take people through, and I would like to get into that. But first, since you mentioned how this, you know, your your client who was seeing this muscle guy was getting these results, and these and then your own daughter had these results, and that inspired you to go do this MAT curriculum. So I would like to hear from you what MAT actually is. And something that we haven’t

really talked about on our on our podcast. We did one episode with a a guy who was on our team actually at our clinic in Austin who just larger than life, amazing personality guy, Steve Haldeman, and he had been with us for several years and during COVID he actually had he got colon cancer and he died pretty suddenly. So we had for many years we had an MAT practitioner on our team and so we saw firsthand the

Chad (05:36.714)
Thank you.

Chad (05:41.757)
you

Garrett Salpeter (05:42.733)
wonderful combination of doing MAT and then following it up with the newbie. And you know, ever ever since then I’ve always just had a sense that that it’s a it’s a really wonderful combination. So that was part of why I was so excited to see what you’ve built there. So with all of that initial foundation being laid, can you can you teach us please, Chad, just you know at a at a high level and maybe we’ll go in deeper on certain parts, but what what exactly is MAT?

Chad (06:11.503)
So really simply put, so muscle activation techniques. First of all, it was developed by guy named Greg Roscoff in Denver, Colorado.

So he released this to the public in 2001 so that people like me and my staff and other people can become certified in this technique and so Really what it is is kind of a kind of a form of applied kinesiology except it’s very detailed So when you start when you start testing muscles and isolating them, you really can’t isolate muscles 100 % But you can get really close right and so what Greg has done is kind of perfected the the art of muscle testing now muscle activation

really what the definition of it is, is non-medical process that assesses range of motion to determine muscular dysfunction or weakness. So in other words, if a muscle is weak in a joint, then something else in that joint, a muscle in that joint has to shorten to create stability in that joint. So what we’re trying to do is look at, okay, so if we know that we can’t internally rotate one leg as well as we can the other, then we know that there are muscles that do those jobs.

And so we want to test those muscles and potentially treat them with the MAT population process to give better neuro input into those muscles and get them to fire a little bit better and create stability in that joint. So that’s kind of the whole process of MAT. But with that, like I said, neuro input disruption or nervous system broken in certain places can affect how those muscles actually function. So when we get into some of the modalities we’ll talk about in a minute, but this process was

was really developed for pro athletes, mainly NFL back in the 80s and 90s. like John Elway and in the NBA, Karl Malone, places, guys like that worked with Greg. And so he got them kind of stable and got them back on the field and got these little nagging injuries like hamstring issues and calf pain and things like that to where they didn’t keep doing those things. So we got the nervous system a little bit stronger. We did a manual palpation with that to get that done. Now, when I met Kara with New Fit,

Chad (08:13.945)
I learned very quickly that new fit being a direct current, I didn’t really understand the difference, but being a direct current would actually enhance what we were doing with MAT. And so since then, that’s been about a year and a half since we’ve had the first new fit and now we have like four fixing by another one, by the way. And so, but that really enhances the process of what we’re, what we’re trying to accomplish here at tex muscle activation, which is getting that, that nervous system healthy again. So those muscles function like they’re supposed to and we create stability in joints.

Garrett Salpeter (08:43.928)
So one part there that I wanna emphasize and maybe pull on that thread a little bit, you talked about when when range of motion is limited, it’s a compensatory guarding or or muscle tension phenomenon. And that speaks to a lot what a lot of our listeners will be familiar with, the idea that when something is tight.

It’s usually tight for a reason. It’s not like the brain wakes up one day and says, I want to spend more calories contracting this muscle, right? Because the brain’s trying to conserve energy. It’s keeping that tight for a reason because something else isn’t working properly, that joint is unstable, et cetera. And so when you just massage a tight muscle, it doesn’t always have a lasting effect because you’re not going upstream far enough to figure out the reason why it’s tight in the first place. So that’s I’m just

Chad (09:15.973)
Correct. So one of the biggest things people go through are tight hamstrings. So everybody on this listen to this podcast can understand. So hamstring tightness, right? Why does that occur? It’s really common. Well, it’s common because the hamstring is attached to the hip and to the knee.

So in an MAT’s perspective, the suspension system is the hip. So on the posterior side of glute max, glute medius, some of these muscles on the back, they, when they go weak, the muscles lower down in the chain, not closer to the knee or even in the foot and support system, they start trying to contract and start trying to help the suspension system stabilize and take the body’s weight. So when we talking about joint instability, so

If we have instability in the knee, for instance, if it’s a deal where, know, patella doesn’t stay tracking like it’s supposed to, the hamstring crosses the knee joint on the lateral side and the medial side. So it makes it a very good posterior chain stabilizer for the knee. So we’re going to draw that hamstring in a little bit to create stability in the knee. Right? So now that’s your brain sending a little caution flag that says, Hey, I’m going to tighten this muscle because you either have hip instability in your knee or your hip.

So you need to figure out what’s going on in those two joints or something above or below it’s affecting it that will stop me from having to use my hamstring or the hamstring to stabilize your body. So it’s almost like your brain’s talking to you kind of subconsciously to an extent. So if we can create stability in those joints and we can get some of those muscles that are on the anterior side or lateral side to stabilize and contract well and attract efficiently and effectively, then the hamstring doesn’t have to overwork.

So to your point, it’s not like the brain stands up one day and says, hey, I’m going to tighten this muscle just because. Right? Now, what are the traditional ways of relieving tightness in muscles? Well, most people stretch it, but stretching a muscle actually disrupts neural input. So we know that because we can test muscles after stretching them and they actually get weaker. Now, the cool thing that we found recently is can you go through range of motion stretching with the NuFit on you?

Chad (11:41.224)
and kind of clear some of those disruptions that have been happening or compensation patterns that they’ve developed over time. And the answer is yes. We can actually use the NuFit to almost have a secondary protective mechanism that stops that guarding and those shutdowns of the other muscles while we’re trying to get them through motion or through dynamic movement. So it’s been a really good kind of marriage here with us with MAT and NuFit as well.

Garrett Salpeter (12:06.658)
That’s awesome. And I I want to come back to that combination. First, I just want to go through some of these parts of what you taught us about MAT in the in that introductory couple of minutes there. So you talked about you’ll look at range of motion, you’ll see where it’s restricted. For example, rotating each leg passively at the hip internally and externally, if you see one’s more limited than the other, you’ll know there there could be inhibition of certain muscles. So so you’re looking at the range of motion as sort of a screening test, and then

It sounded like you said then you would do targeted muscle tests. You talked about how Greg has these tests to very precisely test certain segments of muscles and things like that. So so then you based on would you say that that passive range of motion s is sort of a screen and then from there that tells you where to go in and do muscle testing. And then can you tell us about that next stage of of the manual muscle testing?

Chad (12:51.614)
Yes.

Chad (12:56.257)
Yeah, so we’re looking at the whole kinetic chain as a whole, right? So all this is based on pronation to supination. But a lot of people, when you start talking about those words, pronation and supination, they stop at the foot or the knee or the hip. Well, pronation goes all the way to the head, right? So you can have flat feet and the neck, and I’m sorry, you can have flat feet that are causing pronation and then end up with compression in the neck. Why is that? Well, you go into a forward posture with the neck when you’re into pronation. So your head comes forward, so you lose a curve of your neck. So over time,

Those can be related. So when we’re looking at somebody on the table, we’re looking at the suspension system first is number one. We’re looking at the support system number two. We’re looking at the spines, the thoracic and lumbar is number three. And we’re looking at the upper extremities number four and the cervical spine is number five. So the CAMs are comparative assessment mobility tests, range of motion tests in each joint. Don’t just stop in the hip or the foot or the hand or the shoulder or whatever. It’s the whole body itself.

So if we had, let’s say for instance, you had a 90-90 limited internal rotation of one of the hips, let’s say the right side. So what would be affected by that? So if we have a limited internal rotation on the table, then our external rotators have been guarding for a while, for example, potentially. So glute max, glute medius, something like that, right? So if we didn’t have those muscles firing well, then when we stand on our legs and we load our spine,

We actually fall into internal rotation because the external rotator muscles are not functioning like they’re supposed to. So you have no choice but to kind of go valgus. So that knee caves in, the foot goes flat. And over time, we start looking at muscles in the foot are going weak. And then we start going into like an anterior flexion with the trunk. so abdominal muscles start going weak, right? So all because that first suspension system isn’t functioning like it’s supposed to. So it just got one bleeds into the other. That’s why you have to look at the whole body.

together right so you gotta look at ankle knee hip spine shoulder and neck does make sense?

Garrett Salpeter (14:58.774)
Yeah, for sure. For sure. So when you say and you you mentioned this already, y then you mention again the words suspension and support. So suspension you said was posterior chain. That’s what

Chad (15:08.981)
Well, suspension is considered anything around your hips. you have like, psoas could be part of the suspension system, rectus, sphomorous, glute max, medius, and then all the intrinsic muscles like quad fem, obturator, all the muscles inside the hips. So that would, to me, that would be considered the suspension system. And so when we’re looking at the support system, anything connecting to the foot. So your knee really isn’t a system, right? But we have muscles that are attached to fibula and tibula that control the foot. That make sense?

Garrett Salpeter (15:12.811)
Okay.

Chad (15:37.734)
So same thing with the knee, got hamstring and quad that really attached to the femur, but they’re controlling the knee.

Garrett Salpeter (15:43.054)
Okay. I don’t I don’t want I just wanna make sure no one is getting lost from lack of understanding of the terms. I wanna make sure we all feel like feel like

Chad (15:50.161)
Right, it’s kind of tough to talk about MAT and not understand some of the terms. It’s really kind hard to make it layman’s to an extent. I know when I got through the first day, even with my background, I was kind lost for first week. So I can understand that.

Garrett Salpeter (16:05.772)
Yeah, for sure. So all right, so you’re looking at the system holistically, which I very much appreciate that emphasis. Yes, pronating the foot internally rotates the whole leg, which you know that goes to the pelvis and to the sp up the spine, up the chain. So I I like that you’re emphasizing that. So then just to make sure people understand the the the process here. So when you identify in that example, limited

internal rotation in I believe you said the right hip. So then so then what’s your next call it breakout or next next step there in terms of you’re gonna do you’re gonna do muscle test, you know, more kind of isolated muscle tests just to make sure someone can

Chad (16:36.348)
All right.

Chad (16:44.078)
Right. right. So again, so again, based on, you know, the other cams that we would do, like if we looked at trunks, I’ve been or trunk rotation. So typically what we’ll see is let’s just say we have a baseball player with elbow pain and they’re 14 years old and they’ve been diagnosed with little league elbow. Right. Well, at 14 years old, we’re usually not strong enough to really start disrupting joints that are furthest away from our body. So it’s usually a mechanical dysfunction that started in the foot or the hip.

So follow this process. If you had internal rotation.

Garrett Salpeter (17:24.104)
you’re just you just went on you you get we lost your audio for a second.

Garrett Salpeter (17:30.614)
It’s yeah, now now I can hear again. I’ll I’m gonna I’m gonna just write down the write down the time.

Chad (17:37.0)
ninety ninety internal rotation on that on that it’s something’s uploading. Right. So so we so we’d

Garrett Salpeter (17:42.35)
So yeah, so it’s uploading, so fine. So let’s start start start over again. Start over again. We got the example. Yeah, you know, I we’re asking the question.

Chad (17:50.538)
Alright, so so we had limited internal rotation on the right arm, right? Limited internal rotation on the right hip. So if we fix the suspension system, if we give glute back to them, if we give let’s just say VMO back to them, if we give semi-teninosis and hamstrings back to them, and that whole suspension system gets stable, then we can kind of start looking at side bend, and then we’re gonna start looking at rotation. So all those

All those positions or the foundations is start throwing something. So you you know when you talk to a pitcher, you say, What do you throw from your arm or hips? And they go, yeah, you throw it from your hips, right? That’s where your power comes from. So but if we can’t sidebend and trunk rotate and we can’t hip extend, then we’re gonna be forced to overwork the arm, right? So if we what we see a lot of times here with us is when we get the hips stabilized, we’ll see internal rotation of the arm actually increase motion. Just from getting the suspension system stable.

That’s why we kind of start there first. So we might get quadratic emborum sidebend might be weak. We might get TVA or internal external oblique, weak in the trunk. So think about this. If I’m throwing a baseball and I’m trying to throw it that way, I have to hip extend, I have to sidebend, I have to rotate. Only then can my elbow stay up and rotate down like it’s supposed to. If not, I end up dropping my elbow and we get pushing the ball, or we end up.

getting the ball way way away from us and we end up slinging it, right? Which stresses the elbow and the shoulder. And so at that point the damage has been done. So yes, you have to address those things. But if you don’t fix those mechanical dysfunctions, like internal rotation of the right leg, side bend to the right, rotation to the left, then we’re just gonna keep stressing the arm.

Garrett Salpeter (19:34.383)
Okay. So that is I think that’s a a beautifully clear and coherent description of why these various neuromuscular dysfunctions would have an effect there in that scenario of a you know youth baseball pitcher, for example. So you talked earlier about how when you identify these muscles that are inhibited, how you’re actually creating neurological input to turn them back on. So we have a sense now between the the comparative range of motion analysis side to side, looking for

certain norms and asymmetries, how you’re identifying this, you’re also you know doing some some muscle tests. I guess I don’t I don’t necessarily want to skip over the the the muscle tests either. and then before you know before talking about the these just in a little greater detail the actual activation technique that you’re doing. So so when when you then find a an area of limited range of motion where you where you want to look deeper

You’re doing muscle tests. So you’re doing muscle tests, you’re having someone on the table and doing more kind of isolated joint actions, right? And looking at can they can they fire that muscle? And so

Chad (20:40.219)
Correct. Right, correct. So and if they can’t fire that muscle, so here’s a muscle test. So after putting the muscle into its end range of motion, we’re looking at a 20% effort of testing the muscle. We’re just trying to see if the muscles it can fire or not. So there’s a lot twenty percent effort.

Garrett Salpeter (20:56.974)
You’re looking at a at a again at a what percent effort? Okay, yeah.

Chad (21:00.965)
So 20% effort for for the actual patient, right? So if I had a four and and I’ve been doing this for nine years, so if I had a 14 year old on the table and if I had a major league pitcher on the table, that force looks different, right? So the process of me looking at the range of motion and testing suspension system, trunk, so I kind of know if we have so much force in the hip, we’re gonna have so much force in the trunk just by feel and experience, right? That’s from my clinical knowledge. And

When I start first started doing this, it was really hard to di differentiate, you know, how hard you pull on somebody to see if they can contract to see if they can contract. And what I really learned was we’re really just seeing if the muscle can contract or not. We’re not trying we’re not brake testing I did like I did when I was a PT. So we’re not just see how much force they can they can give. We’re just seeing can they contract the muscle? Because if you can’t contract the muscle, you’re gonna compensate. You know what I’m saying? So

Garrett Salpeter (21:56.131)
Yeah. And so

Chad (21:58.007)
So, but this is where like the palpation of MAT really comes from the insertion and origin of the muscle. So of a belly muscle, right? That’s really the workhorse or the motor. The tendons that attach to that muscle that also attach to bone or other tendon in some cases. The tendon houses the spindle fibers that send and receive signal from the brain to tell the muscle to fire. So it’s very simplicity put, it’s called the gamma motor loop. So we’ve got gamma motor neurons.

That are sent to the attachment tissue to tell the muscle to do a job, right? When that signal can’t be seen from stress, trauma, overuse, or from inflammation, or from disruption and like tear tears and things like that, then we’re we’re trying to palpate those positions manually and we can actually stimulate them through the sense of touch and transfer information from the brain to that attachment tissue and show the brain kind of what we want it to do. Now it all happens in that same scenario. You can’t just, you know.

Test a muscle and then go walk down the hall and come back and then treat it. You have to treat it right then. Now the cool thing about New Fit from from my understanding and what I’ve been practicing with it for the past year and a half is NewFit will do that same thing, which is really cool. So we can use MAT to identify what’s actually weak and what muscles

are not doing their jobs and they’re losing range of motion and literally charge them up with new fit and increase that signal so that it’s there ready to go and then next time we do E T or even in that session it works ten times better. Because it the input’s there, right? I don’t have to wait for the brain to learn again.

Garrett Salpeter (23:35.916)
Yeah. So when you’re doing these palpation on the origin and insertion areas of muscle tissue, does that correlate at all with

Trigger points, or does that correlate at all with points from, you know, different applied kinesiology type of traditions or things like that? Or or is it what’s what’s the what’s the experience like? Perhaps is a better question, compared to working on like a trigger point.

Chad (24:04.758)
So the problem with doing some of the trigger point stuff is most of the time the palpations are way too hard and they’re not in the right place. So they’re they’re like let’s say if you had somebody trying to release a muscle, if you put your thumb through the belly of a muscle and you push too hard, you can actually disrupt disrupt input because the brain will will kind of s signal that as pain. And so we have pain receptors that go out that teach our body to compensate so that we don’t hurt, right? And so

a lot of times with some of the trigger point release stuff, we’ll actually see them get worse. We’ll see them get weaker and we’ll see them get tighter. Because what they release, yes, got better, but what did it cause an in input disruption somewhere else? So if we’re not looking at the entire chain, you’re just saying, hey, your hamstring’s tight, let me release it. Okay, well, that was helping you. Why would you take that away? You get what I’m saying? So you’d have to look at, okay, so what above and below it now doesn’t work because you release that hamstring.

Garrett Salpeter (25:03.714)
Yeah. That’s that’s a very good, very good question back to the holistic model.

Chad (25:07.475)
And and and I’ll tell you something to add to that, what I’ve seen a lot of and and here’s the thing, this is just what I’ve seen in this clinic, right? So at the at the at the level that we see, I see a lot of different people from eight years old to eighty five years old, pro athlete to you athlete to youth athlete to moms and dads, and it doesn’t matter. No muscle system is what it is. So I’ve seen things like cupping cause disruption and input. I’ve seen things like dry needling. Now when you start talking about needling, acupuncture a little different. Why?

Because they’re in nervous system, right? So if we’re stimulating the nervous system, then we’re actually giving good input to muscles. So if you had the right person doing ac acupuncture, you could actually kinda almost do the same thing as activation and like the same as new fit to an extent. So but when we’re sticking a needle in the belly of a muscle to get it to release, we go back to that’s kind of the same as stretching it or foam rolling it. And so we see weaknesses past some of these modalities that we’ve learned in the past, even though I did as a PT. I didn’t know any better.

and now we’re s shining away from that going, Hey, so this is actually increasing more of a problem than it is helping.

Garrett Salpeter (26:13.59)
Interest interesting perspective there, yeah. so just just to close the loop on the actual activation technique, when you’re working on these origin and insertion tissues and influencing the gamma motor neurons, is that does it feel just like a gentle palpation or does it feel like you’re getting into some uncomfortable spots? What’s the sort of subjective experience like for people who haven’t who haven’t actually felt it?

Chad (26:35.731)
So, in my opinion, based on what I’ve done on people, I think the more pain you create, the more disruption and input you create. Right? So I don’t think it should hurt. I don’t think it should be a a painful palpation. I think it should be a light palpation that they yes, they feel it. And it sometimes when people are very body aware, they can actually feel the muscle kind of fired up, kind of contracting a little bit almost.

Almost like, hey, I got I can feel like the circulation. I can feel the warmth. You know, that’s that’s crazy that I’m feeling that. And then you got other people that are not body aware and they’re just like, I don’t feel anything. And then when you test them, then you get their their attention because they’re like, wow, how’d you do that? That’s all strong again. I can’t I can I can move my arm again. Holy crap. So, but I think if you create too much force in palpation, it’s not really no different than a deep tissue massage. You end up disrupting input again. So you gotta be very careful about how you’re doing that palpation.

Garrett Salpeter (27:33.443)
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That’s good. Got a lot of good a lot of good wisdom in there. So we’ve gotten some of the details on MAT, which of course is the the namesake of your clinic and the the the thing that got you interested in this and and doing this model in the first place. So now let’s let’s pivot to talk about in greater detail the model of your facility there. So can you can you walk us through when someone comes in? One of the things that

I really appreciate was the order, the progression, and how you do things. Can you walk us through I found it to be very intentional. Can you walk us through that as a starting point?

Chad (28:11.578)
Right. So when we have a new patient come in for a consultation, again, it can be any level, we look at the MAT process first. So they come into either my office or one of my MATs that works here, and we look at, okay, so what what are they losing like as far as range of motion goes in a neutral anatomical position? So just laying flat on their back, unloaded spine. So what can their body not get in position? So where their body cannot get into position, meaning like

The internal external rotation. So if we move our arm in, if we move our leg in, or if we go into hip flexion or whatever it is, then we’re looking at okay, so what are all the muscles that can’t do that or that should be doing that job that potentially aren’t? And so that’s where it leads us to, hey, so we’re going to check all these muscles in this box. Now, once we kind of figure out, okay, so do this is what’s happening to this person, they’re losing they’re losing motion or they’re losing function or it’s weak. We know that inflammation causes a lot of these issues. So after we do that.

That whole palpation analysis on them and range of motion testing and increase all their function. Then now we have a list of insertion origin of hey, so potentially we have some disruption at these attachments for these muscles. Right. So we would use some of our therapies here. We have a shockwave therapy here called PZO wave, and then we have an aspen aspen class class four laser that we use too. So

a lot of those modalities are for different things, breaking up information, getting new blood flow into the cells and things like that to get the tissue healthy again. And so if you had a basic hamstring strain or or something like that, or like a ankle sprain or or or whatever, that that’s the process that they would go through. And so they did a a s a a series of visits based on you know what their consultation looked like, would determine on how many sessions they actually needed to get better. and then also based on the people that we’ve seen in the past and what that

kind of look like okay so if we had a great three ankle spring how many sessions did it take on average to get them better. but we also do other things here. So we also do spinal decompression. So what we’ve learned using the MAT process again is and NuFit comes in here too, but we’ve learned that when we have disruption in the spinal input, right? And this is really hard for people to understand, but your brain tells your body what to do. Sends information down your spinal cord, into the nerve endings, into the organs and the muscles, right?

Chad (30:33.218)
So if you had a dis bulge, say at Alphavis 1 or L405, that’s pretty common two places to have dispulges. If those discs are bulging onto the nerve roots that are telling lower extremities what to do, then we could actually have a disrupt and input from the spine. So if we don’t fix the spine, then we’re not going to fix any of the muscles lower than the spine. And so using the MAT process to figure out what’s actually weak, and then looking back at their X-ray or MRI and saying, okay, so

They’re on the L four nerve root or the L five nerve root. So what’s on that nerve line? So this muscle, this muscle, this one, this one. Okay, are they weak? Absolutely they’re weak. So if we don’t get that disc off that nerve, then it’s gonna be really hard to fix their muscles in their leg. Does that make sense? So so and then we would can we then we would combine some bright therapies with as well. So P wave and laser and crowd. But what we’ve recently done is when we have a patient that we’re doing

Garrett Salpeter (31:17.676)
Yeah, for sure.

Chad (31:29.878)
decompression with and their spine’s unstable because of the dyspulges or herniations or stenosis or whatever’s going on, then during the recovery process, we actually put new fit around their spine. Because if new fit will talk to the muscles, then I can actually get all those little intrinsic muscles around the spine to start firing like they’re supposed to after we treat them. And they’re having crazy good results afterwards. Because that spine will get stable and then they get up and walk up the table and they’re like, wow, that’s stable. It’s like, okay, good. Keep going.

Garrett Salpeter (31:59.403)
I I love that. That’s that’s actually the first time I believe that I’ve heard of of someone of a a clinic putting the newbie on during decompression. That makes a lot of sense and I love that. no, no.

Chad (32:10.591)
Well not during not during, not during decompression, not during. So after when they get off the table and they get on recoveries. So I’ve actually thought about doing that, but I need to talk to some people before I try to do that. So

Garrett Salpeter (32:25.998)
All right. Well, I’m sorry, I miss I misheard you there. That that I think perhaps there’s there’s something there. I don’t know a ton about it, but I know enough that it could be yeah, it could be interesting. So all right, so so we’ve got some of these in initial phases and what you’re doing. And then can you can you talk more about how you’re using the the newbie and then also what you’re doing there with the ISO fit, because that’s an interesting part of this sort sort of ongoing training as well.

Chad (32:27.711)
No, no, it’s okay. It’s okay.

Chad (32:55.936)
Yeah. ISOFit, I mean, I’ll tell you the the isophit and the new fit together are just state of the art. I mean, I I think we’re just scratching the surface with with the with the with the iso fit with Bradthrop and with your new fit together a newbie. increasing those impulses while we have a isometric contraction for a long period of time.

We’re we’re forcing information into that muscle. We’re asking the brain to fire this muscle. And as long as we have a nervous system, that that gamma neuron will thicken and thicken and thicken and thicken. And we can increase again force tolerance in those joints where those muscles cross. And if we add new fit on top of it, my gosh, it’s even better. Because now we’re forcing information into that into that muscle itself. And the brain has to recognize it because it’s the same current, correct? So direct current is the same line that the brain uses to to function. So

When we have someone come in, let’s say, let’s go back to like a hamstring with a with an athlete. So the hamstring’s super tight or they pulled their hamstring. Obviously it I got overworked. So why was it overworked? We’re looking to the spinch system and glutes not firing, QL’s not firing, maybe even some other erectors on the mo opposite side of the spine. So we’ll actually put new fit on some of those muscles that are testing really weak on the table as MAT and use isopit to strengthen the body.

And support it with new fit. So that’s one way that we use New Fit. The other way that we use New Fit is we can actually do a foot bath with like ankle sprain. That works really well. So you put you combine our modalities with new fit at the end and a bucket of water with their foot and stimulate all those nerve endings in their foot, then we can get inflammation to subside really fast and they get function. So a lot of times the kids will get out of the out of the bath after doing a bath and they’ll stand up and walk and they’ll be mom.

It doesn’t hurt. Like it didn’t hurt at all. And I was okay, you’re still injured. It’s one session. So let’s do a series of these and kind of get you stable first before we do it. So don’t don’t think you’re you’re healed just yet. But getting that little kid out of pain after two weeks of being an ankle sprain or four days or a day after, I mean, that’s huge. That’s huge for the family. It’s huge for the kid. And it’s like, and then he has hope to say, Hey, I’m gonna get back on the court I’ll get back on the field a little faster. So the only other way I would say we’re using new fit, and this is something that

Chad (35:20.285)
I I posted recently, you guys had somebody come in and do a little videography stuff of us. but we had an older gentleman that was eighty-five years old. he’s actually my father in law’s alumni, OSU, whatever you call that, Sigma Chi, whatever. but he had le he has rest of leg syndrome. So, you know, Larry, my father in law calls me and he says, Hey, you think that would help this RLS? I’m

Or R R S Leg Yeah, R L S. And I was like, I don’t know. I don’t know how I would do that. So I called Laura, I think, or Kara, and I said, Hey, so if y’all have any res r response with restless leg syndrome. She goes, Well, we can’t really make claim to that. I mean, I think there’s some people that have had some good results with it or whatever. but I would say, you know, it’s not gonna hurt him, try it, you know, whatever. So I brought him in and I put the glove on, so we can put the glove with the new fit, and I actually scanned his legs.

Just to kind of work just to kind of wake up the nervous system a little bit. And then we used some of our therapies to take away some of the inflammation and kind of get some of the neuropathy that he was going through kind of down. And then we did a master reset on him. And so we did this. And about the fourth day we did this, he was having a hard time sleeping. I mean, this man was going sixty sixty hours without sleep to to what he was saying. And I I would assume it was probably like t an hour here, two hours there, that kind of thing. But no sleep, right? So he was just driving himself nuts.

But after four days of that, he slept for eight hours in my house. And I was like, You slept you’ve been sleeping the whole time? He Yeah. He’s I don’t know what you did, but that that’s way better. So can I make the claim that we can fix restless leg syndrome? No. But we can help some of the symptoms. So that’s another cool way that we were using new using the new fit as well.

Garrett Salpeter (37:10.754)
Yeah, that’s awesome. I really appreciate that. And we we talked about ISOFit there, so just for people who are not familiar with it, can you tell us, you know, the the contraption and what it is a little bit about how it works here?

Chad (37:24.122)
Right. So so Asofit is is really it’s it’s a it’s a machine that you can move a bar into different positions and you can do I mean you can do hundreds of thousands of exercises, anything you can think up. But it’s not necessarily the exercises with the machines, it’s more about the isometrics themselves. So a lot of times we’ll do isometrics for ten, fifteen minutes, ten ten, fifteen seconds, and we’re not really getting into those deeper fiber muscle tissues.

And so it takes it takes a lot longer to hold some of that. So what Brad is the research that Brad has done with this, I mean, minimally of 30 second isometric before you start getting into one X fibers and A1 and and all those those types of things. but it’s it’s the time under tension, it’s the knowledge of understanding how long you should hold a muscle contraction. So again, if we shut down from even contracting a muscle, we can again use the new fit.

to kind of help keep that muscle kind of functioning throughout that time and eventually getting them off the new fit and just getting into isometrics and then working out again. So but there’s a really cool system with that. if you go to isofit.com you can look at the different machines that he has on there. He’s got a new one out with the force plate. but it’s it’s non movement. But a lot of people don’t realize that an isometric does have movement. So the muscle belly itself will expand up to sixteen percent.

in a muscle contraction holding it for that long period of time. So again, increasing that neuro input, increasing force tolerance, stress tolerance, all those things that that we’re trying to get as as athletes or just general population.

Garrett Salpeter (39:06.37)
Yeah, and so isofit just the the spelling is ISO P H I T. Brad Brad Thorpe, who we both know is the the founder of that company. And it there’s a lot of value in isometrics. One is also tendon remodeling, connected tissue strengthening and remodeling too. So that’s that’s certainly one benefit and something that I think is getting more interest and traction and the way that you’re implementing it there, Chad, is I think is really cool.

Chad (39:11.052)
Yes.

Chad (39:14.817)
Yes.

Chad (39:22.027)
Yeah.

Garrett Salpeter (39:35.623)
one of the things that that you’ve touched on a little bit, touched on a little bit here and that we’ve certainly talked about separately is the effect of electrical stimulation on muscle testing. You’re doing these very precise muscle tests. actually one thing I want to touch on too from that you you talked about testing, talk about doing 20% effort testing over brake testing. You know, if someone’s holding their leg up and you’re pushing down in different in different angles to challenge different muscles.

Chad (40:02.131)
Mm-hmm.

Garrett Salpeter (40:04.418)
There’s, you know, some people will argue, well, they’re on a table. How does that really translate? Some people will argue different things to that first one. I think it’s I think it’s really compelling to say, look, if you can’t even engage this muscle when you’re laying down in the most simple developmental position, how do you think you’re gonna be able to do it when you’re doing managing gravity and you have more complicated stresses and challenges and coordination requirements? So I I think that’s it is just sort of breaking it down to the to the bare bones. It’s like you need to learn.

Chad (40:09.61)
Well that is the world.

Garrett Salpeter (40:34.334)
individual letters and and the sounds, the phonics, before you can write words, before you can speak words, and then you can build sentences and paragraphs. So I I just

Chad (40:43.263)
So there’s one thing I tell a lot of parents, so they’re like, so how is this how is this process gonna help them function? And I go, so let me ask you a question. How does the body learn? How does the brain learn? And a lot of people don’t even think about what I’m about to say, but it’s like the brain learns through repetition, right? So if you’re gonna learn math, you can’t read to learn math. You have to learn math, right? So when it comes to

A physical movement, if you’re wanna jump higher, you have to work on jumping. Does that make sense? So, and then if you want to run faster, you have to go sprint. So, if like to your point, if we can’t contract muscles in a non-loaded environment, then what do you think is gonna happen when you load load your spine and you have all these different forces, maybe somebody pushing against you, or like you said, gravity or even the surface?

Like if you’re in mud versus a a turf, I mean, those are all forces that you have to deal with. And so and and when you can’t deal with them correctly and your body doesn’t respond to them in time, then we start compensating and as we all know, we usually get hurt in compensation in range of motion.

Garrett Salpeter (41:59.363)
Yep. Yes, totally. So that was going back to to close one of the loops on muscle testing in order to in order to get to this next question where you’re we’ve talked about examples where you’ve actually done pre post muscle testing with with you know the newbie with our new fit device and then with other electrical stimulation devices. And can you talk about some of those? Because I found that to be very fascinating.

Chad (42:27.346)
Well, so we used to use so let me let me tell you this. All right, so first of all, when it comes to I’ll give this as an example. When it comes to spinal decompression, so I know a lot about spinal decompression. We have one of the best well, we have the best table on the market right now. It’s called a hill hill D. Hill Hill D hill decompression table by Hill Labs. Dr. Tim Burkhart is the guy, the doctor over Hill Labs. we kind of follow him as the as the crown rule of this is how you do decompression.

so used to we would put the patient on heat to kind of let the muscles kind of warm up so we get a decent pull. And then we would usually use E stem around the spine to kind of loosen up those muscles to where they can actually get a little bit more blood flow and then they won’t guard so much, right? So what I didn’t know is that the tens unit is an alternating current, if I’m not mistaken, that’s what it’s called, right? Alternating current. And so the actual brain doesn’t know what to do with that current.

Garrett Salpeter (43:20.525)
Yeah. Yes.

Chad (43:26.105)
It’s too much. And so what we were doing was making them unstable. And the last thing, if you look at this on the talk Dr. Burkhart, is you don’t want to pull a spine that’s unstable. Right? So you want to create stability first and then you wanna then you then you can get proper movement. If not, you’re gonna get a Golgian res dend tendon response in the muscles, and you’re gonna lock down and you’re not gonna pull. And the whole point is to move the spine so that you can get the disc healthier. So

Back then I was thinking back to this going now that I know what I know, it’s like, hey, we were making them unstable. That’s not good. Especially on a table, right? So the only reason why know this is because I’ve started testing people with a tens unit on. So there is a there’s a particular tens unit out right now that a lot of baseball players are using, a lot of volleyball players, and we see a plethora of those.

and I and I kept seeing them weak and I’m like, what are what are you doing? Like how how are you coming in on third session and you’re not holding anything? And like, I don’t know, I I don’t know. I’m just I’m using my my device at home and I’m I’m icing and I’m doing the band stuff and I’m doing the isometrics, but I d I don’t know. And so I just started testing stuff. Okay, well let’s look at the isometrics. Are they working? Yes. Look at the band stuff. Okay, cool. You can you can tolerate this force. So yeah, you’re strong. And so ice after compression with our thermics machine, you’re strong. So I was like, Bring your device from home.

So this kid brings his device from home, we put it on his arm, and it’s all, you know, making him spasm or whatever it is. And then I tested him, and not only was his arm shut down, but all the way down to his foot. I mean, glute was weak, QL, SOAS, hamstring, calf, just completely disrupted input. And this and he he went back into the compensation pattern that we were trying to fix, which was pronation on his right side. So I’ve done since then I’ve done the new fit, and I was like, okay, was the new fit doing that? And so

I started testing people’s AnuFit, and not only is it not doing it, they’re actually stronger. So we use a a system called the Valve System, V A L D. And so we have a handheld force monitor, and I’ve actually had videos of this showing before and after the New Fit and before and after MAT and before and after attends and before and after, you know, the different things. And so I mean here at this clinic, I’m not gonna put anything in it that doesn’t support muscle activation. That’s kind of the

Chad (45:40.184)
the the hub of everything. So we’re using these modalities like P wave and laser and the NuFit and you know the three sixty machine we hadn’t even talked about yet. but I ISO fit, you know, anything that increases neuro input I’m interested in. And the things that don’t, I’m I’m not interested.

Garrett Salpeter (45:55.597)
Yeah, that’s a good North Star decision making guideline there. That is does it help muscle activation? If so, continue. If not, turn off this road. since you mention since you mentioned the All Core three sixty, can you tell us about that real quick? I got to try that for the first time when I was there. Yeah.

Chad (46:11.137)
You did and you did good. Yeah, so so the Accord three sixty, I honestly I don’t even know how I come up with this stuff. I I’ve had we’ve had ours for three years, I guess. Since twenty twenty four, yeah, almost three years. So Accord three sixty is a machine that you set in it almost looks like a roller coaster ride for for to to be to to make it simplistic. But

Strap in your hips and your spine, your your upper body’s not touching anything, so you’re sitting up like this. So we can we can have you go straight up and down, which would be a no load on your spine, right? And then we can lean you back at different degrees. We can even go flat to the earth. So let’s say this is a spine. So as we go back, we actually can rotate the spine, it rotates 360 degrees, and so you’re you’re forcing your body against gravity, so it increases what they call neuroplasticity.

in the muscles around the spine. So the brain learns new functions, kinda like we were talking about earlier. Jumping higher, you know if you want to jump higher, you gotta jump. So the same thing. If we challenge those muscles together, Heb’s law says that muscles that fire together, fire together, wire together. And so if we can create like metifidus and all the muscles around the little bony land marks, if if we can keep all those kind of functioning together, then we can actually create spinal stability really quickly. And so when I first got the machine, I I didn’t really know it was going to work.

But it’s really expensive. So I had this young gymnast that I’ve been trying to help with hip flexion and it’s continued left hip flexion. I mean, I I can do A T on her and she’s great. But left hip flexion, left hip flexion, just couldn’t do it. And so I put her on the th three sixty for the first time at a moderate angle, fifty degrees, nothing crazy. And she got off the table and she put her both legs one at time. She could lay it on built on her shoulder. It was crazy. And I thought to myself, so why did that just happen?

Well, what happened because the machine created spinal stability through isometrics, because that’s what it is. It’s an isometric ride for 10 minutes. So three 360 degrees, three rounds one way, three rounds the other, and then we challenge a little bit more, five to ten degrees, and then we do two and two. And so that process over twelve to twenty-four sessions, depending on the patient and what they need, we can get that kind of spine stable just using using that rotation against gravity. Really cool product.

Garrett Salpeter (48:28.398)
And if you have stability there, then there’s no reason to inhibit in this case the hip flexors or whatever the other muscle is. So yeah. Yeah. So I it that’s a good good way to round out the the model there. So as we as we conclude this portion of the discussion, is there anything more, Chad, that that you feel like we need to say about about your work and the model there at T Ma?

Chad (48:37.054)
Right. Right.

Chad (48:58.513)
Man, I t I tell everybody this. everybody says so we get better and they get stable and and they say, So what do I do going forward? And I said, Keep your nervous system healthy. Stop stop diff disrupting input. Right? So you have to recover from activity. It doesn’t matter what you’re doing, if it’s walking down the street or playing a football game, you you can’t go over threshold. You start going over threshold, you start going backwards and you start compensating start happening. So

Chad (49:37.079)
So that the the biggest takeaway for that is they say, Okay, so do I just have to keep doing this? I have to keep doing this MAT and I’m like, Well, you’re gonna keep stressing your muscles out? Probably, right? But can we teach you to do some of this stuff on your own? Absolutely. Go back to isometrics. I know you want to go in the weight room and you want to load your body, but when you’re doing that, you’re disrupting input to an extent. So re engage those muscles, re engage the nervous system.

And get yourself to where you can recover a little bit faster from from activity to activity, whatever that is.

Garrett Salpeter (50:11.084)
Yeah, that’s one of the biggest lessons I’ve learned that’s been surprising is things, whether it be in the exercise domain or even in nutrition or whatever it is, different foods, different exercises that that I think or that I’ve been taught should be good for me may not necessarily be. Like eggs are super healthy. I happen to have an egg sensitivity, so it actually does has some you know significant issues.

in my body cause it causes inflammation and even like a skin rash and things like that. So so I don’t eat eggs, even though they’re quote unquote healthy. And we can we can do things in the gym that we think are going to help us and they can actually send us backwards. And there are ways to tell that. You can have a certain strength test, you can test test range of motion and something, you can test your vertical jump, you can find something as some sort of indicator to know if something is helping you or hurting you. But

I think that’s that’s one of the most kind of frustrating and sad situations or dynamics where people are doing things that that they’re told are going to help them and they just don’t.

Chad (51:19.019)
Right. Yeah, I don’t and and it goes back to what he just said. I mean, if you load the body too much, it will guard.

I mean, think about it. If I put five hundred pounds on my back and started squatting, I I can’t squat five. I’m 47 years old. I can’t squat 500 pounds, right? So if I keep what if I what if I was to start adding 25 pound plates on top of that 500? I would just compensate, I would crumble, right? Over time. So the same thing’s happening when we load these muscles and these joints too much and we start decreasing force tolerance, which is why I like the new fit so much.

Because we can actually increase those abilities to keep those muscles firing and functioning when they want to decrease from too much activity, just like putting too much weight on my back. So, I mean again, it goes back to what what are you doing? Right?

Garrett Salpeter (52:10.22)
Yeah, for sure, for sure. great insight there. So if people are interested, Chad, in learning more about Texas muscle activation and your work, where can they look you up? Do you send them to the website, your social media?

Chad (52:22.467)
yeah, so they can go website. we have a we have a we have a link on there that kind of is like a consult kind of thing. and it goes to an email. So it’s like, hey, I’d like to know more I’d like to do a consultation. And we could even do something overline if they’re from another state or whatever it is. But it’s Texas Muscle Activation dot com. or if you want to email me, you can email me at info at Texas Muscle info at Texas Muscle Activation dot com as well.

Garrett Salpeter (52:50.774)
Awesome, very good, very good. So I would like to close by asking you if you could shout one message from a rooftop or a mountaintop for everyone to hear or put one message on a billboard for everyone to see, Chad Surratt, what would your message be?

Chad (53:09.692)
Stop disrupting your nervous system.

Garrett Salpeter (53:13.294)
Yeah, yes. Amen.

Chad (53:14.258)
Yes. Right. Amen. That’s a good one, right? You just gotta figure out what the what that is, you know? So there’s a lot of things out there that disrupt our nervous system, even internally and externally. And the new fit, I I’m here to tell you, the new fit can help with both. I’ve seen it I’ve seen a master reset on people with just stressed out, you know, and then then test them and their muscles come back strong. It’s like wow.

Garrett Salpeter (53:19.352)
Man, yes.

Yeah.

Chad (53:41.17)
So that’s just a nervous system issue. It has nothing to do with their joints or muscles or anything like that. And then you got people that actually have injury, impact trauma, and we’re able to re recover that quickly as well. So good product.

Garrett Salpeter (53:55.17)
Well, thank you. And likewise, a great a great product, a great service offering there at Texas Muscle Activation Chad. I really appreciate you coming on and sharing the the special sauce, what you’re doing there, your your recipe or your formula. It’s awesome. And I I was there, I saw the names on the walls, different heard some even more stories of which we heard a few today. And it’s, you know, really helping people and you’re helping people by getting to the root cause of why they have

pain and injury and dysfunction and of course it is in the nervous system as as we’ve talked about and you’re going upstream in a very intentional, strategic, repeatable way and working through things in a in a very clear and coherent progression. So I I really respect and admire it and appreciate you again for coming on the show.

Chad (54:43.442)
Well, I appreciate you having man anytime.

Garrett Salpeter (54:46.144)
Awesome. And thank you, listener, for tuning into this episode of the Undercurrent Podcast. We will see you next time. Bye bye.